Zann: Ten Years of Dark, Chaotic Hardcore

Zann were an intense hardcore band from Eastern Germany, formed in 1999. Their sound was heavy, chaotic, emotional, and ugly in the best possible way, taking cues from ’90s American hardcore bands like Chokehold, Unbroken, and Born Against, while also sitting firmly within Germany’s own tradition of dark, metallic hardcore.

I had the pleasure of seeing them at different shows around Europe, and they were always one of those bands that made complete sense live. Loud, urgent, passionate, and never polished into something safe. By the time this interview was conducted in 2009, Zann were about to celebrate their 10th anniversary, with a long list of split releases, hundreds of shows, tours across the United States and Japan, and more plans still ahead.

Here’s a conversation with Uwe and Robert about the band, DIY friendships, straight edge, veganism, Adagio 830, the German scene, squats, politics, and trying to keep a meaningful life inside and outside hardcore punk.

I heard that you’re celebrating the 10th anniversary of Zann in 2009. Can you give us a brief introduction to the band and what you have achieved in those 10 years? Do you play kick-ass shows? What about your tours? You were in Japan. Was that your best experience as a band?

Uwe: OK, we’re a five-piece. After Ron, guitar, moved to my hometown for university, and my and Mark’s, drums, band broke up, we thought we should try something new, and it worked out. Robert, a friend of Ron’s, joined on vocals, and after our second show, our friend John joined on second guitar because he was so excited to see us play. It’s going to be 10 years sometime around October, I think. What will we have achieved by then? So far, we have done about 20 releases, including splits, compilations, etc., played about 350 shows, and done 12 tours, including four in the United States and two in Japan. This year, we plan to release an anniversary 7-inch, a tour DVD, and tour the Commonwealth of Independent States, CIS, aka Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Israel, and Europe. I can’t really say if we play kick-ass shows. I like most of them. The rest is up to the audience.

Robert: I don’t know if we play kick-ass gigs. :) At least I have fun playing shows most of the time, and I can’t believe that this band will be together for 10 years soon. We have seen so much while touring, met tons of great people and also a few assholes. I don’t know if Japan was the best touring experience, but I can say that it will never be forgotten, and I’m thankful that we had this opportunity twice. Hopefully, there will be more tours and shows to come, and people won’t get tired of us.

Not too long ago, you released a split with Ghostlimb, Perth Express, and Trainwreck. It seems like you do a lot of split releases. Which other bands have you collaborated with? Are you friends with all of them? What’s the meaning of friendship in the DIY scene?

Uwe: We have split records with lots of bands, including Racebannon, Anger Is Beautiful, Blame Game, Funeral Diner, The 244 GL, Burial Year, Ghostlimb, Perth Express, and Trainwreck. We know almost all of the bands and are friends with them, that’s right.

Friendship is important in the DIY scene because it’s not a business relationship. A lot of people do shows, records, and stuff for us because they know and like us as people, not just as business.

Robert: I guess the split releases are based on friendship and also the lack of new songs. Hahaha. With most of the bands, we either toured with them or have friendship in common. I think friendship has to do with trust, and trust is a very important thing for this community. I mean, all the trading, booking, releasing records, etc. is built on friendship, trust, and all that. You have to rely on people in a world without contracts.

Do you find hardcore music a good outlet for depression, frustration, and anger? Are the lyrics reflections of inner feelings or manifestations of what you see in the outside world, dealing with society, politics, etc.? What inspires you to play underground music? Aren’t there better ways to express dissenting views and social consciousness than playing loud and fast music?

Uwe: Every form of art is an outlet. We’ve chosen hardcore punk music because it’s what we know and are able to do. We’re not great painters or writers. We just happen to know how to use instruments. Besides that, I think hardcore punk is an art form where “artist” and “consumer” are basically the same people. The boundary between both is fluid. Most people do something within this scene, and this is great, I think.

Robert: I guess it is a good way to show anger. But I don’t know if it’s going to change a lot of things outside our little community. I think it takes a lot more than an angry band playing loud music to change the world. We have the chance to show people our ideas through lyrics and statements, and we can discuss things with people. But in the end, it takes action and not just words. Sometimes I’m tired of the whole underground thing. At shows, bands talk about all the clichéd stuff like “fight fascism, sexism, etc.” to a crowd that already knows it, and everyone agrees with what is said most of the time, and that makes it so easy. There is no confrontation anymore.

I think a band is just a small part for me when it comes to dealing with politics or society. We’re looking for a little niche in this world, and I think we’ve found ours, and I think we’re kind of comfortable in it. I mean, even if I don’t like all the things that go on in this “underground” scene, every time I look at other parts of society, I find myself enjoying this subculture again.

What are your personal inspirations in punk music that led you to form Zann? What are your main influences? What about the German bands that influenced you?

Uwe: I wouldn’t say there were inspirations needed from the punk scene to form Zann. It was just the opportunity, with Ron moving to my town, to try something new, and it worked out. Major influences? Musically, a lot of mid-’90s hardcore/punk like Chokehold, Unbroken, Threadbare, The Crimson Curse, Damnation A.D., etc. There is no German band that influenced me in respect to Zann besides Argwohn. There are some German bands most of us like, e.g. Acme, Loxiran, Enfold, Sabeth, but I wouldn’t see them as musical influences on our music.

Robert: We formed Zann because we all kind of knew each other for a while, more or less, and we all wanted to play the same music. I don’t know if there were any personal inspirations for me. I think we were all in the same place at the right time, and even though we are all different, sometimes we fight, have arguments, and so on. We all have the same understanding of things, and we have been able to do this for so long. I don’t know if we are directly influenced by German bands, but I liked Age musically and lyrically. I like Acme, Loxiran, Systral, and Akephal for the music.

I understand you’re all straight edge. Why is it important for you to boycott the alcohol, tobacco, and drug industries? What meaning do you put into the straight edge lifestyle? Is it a form of social protest for you?

Uwe: I just don’t like the idea of losing control, be it by emotion or by substances. And the practice of paying money to someone or for something that will wreck you and leave you addicted is just plain stupid. If people can’t even think this far, that’s really sad.

Robert: I think straight edge has become more and more of a personal thing for me over the years. I became straight edge because I was tired of all the punks in my hometown who didn’t have anything else to do but get drunk. I got tired of this “no future” attitude, and I never understood people complaining about a €5 punk show and then buying beer and cigarettes for €20 or so the same night. That makes no sense to me. I never understood why I should pay a big corporation to kill myself. I mean, if you want to kill yourself, there are cheaper ways to do it. I hate people who use “being drunk” as an excuse for acting shitty and not getting things done. You should be responsible for how you act in any way.

Are all of you vegetarians or vegans? What is it about the vegan lifestyle that makes it more than just a dietary or consumer choice for Western Europeans?

Uwe: I’m vegan and Ron kind of is, the rest are vegetarians. Do I really have to tell all the reasons for being vegan? I won’t. Shouldn’t this be clear? Personally, the most important aspect to me is to overcome selfishness on the dietary level and stop being part of this suffering and destruction.

What does the name Zann mean? Does it come from “The Music of Erich Zann” by H.P. Lovecraft?

Uwe: Yes, indeed. A very inspiring piece of literature for me. It illustrates very well the reasons why I play music.

Can you give us an insight into the German DIY scene? What about all the bands, labels, zines, and festivals like Cry Me A River?

Uwe: I don’t know much about the screamo scene in Germany. In my opinion, it’s way too much screamo. But I guess there are a lot of bands and shows for that. It’s funny that people often call us a screamo band. It’s almost an insult. I mean, we don’t listen to screamo, we don’t do screamo, we have a different musical background… I don’t know. CMAR is a good festival. A lot of friends are there, hanging out and playing. If it weren’t for the weird, out-of-the-way locations and the limited attendance, I’d say it’s the best hardcore punk fest in Germany. The people there do a great job, and we’ve been going every year for the last four or five years, so there must be something to it.

Robert: I guess we are pretty spoiled when it comes to venues, labels, bands, and all that. It’s great to see how everything is still growing and people are starting new things everywhere. There’s so much going on, and it’s hard to fit it all into this interview. But there are some labels that have been going strong for a while now, like React With Protest. There are a bunch of new cassette labels, etc. German bands to check out are Aina, Call Me Betty, Fargo, Glasses, Kids Explode, Just Went Black, June Paik, Mersault, Trainwreck, and many more.

Members of Zann are involved in the label Adagio 830. Could you give us some more information about the label? What kind of bands do you release? How are your releases distributed? How many of each record do you press? How does the global DIY conspiracy work for you?

Robert: Actually, it’s just me who is involved with the label. Adagio 830 started in 1997 in my old hometown, when I released an LP for the German band Cole Quintet, and from then on, a lot of releases happened. I’m still as excited about new releases as I was 12 years ago. I still only release bands that I love, that I feel connected to, and that have their heart in the right place. It doesn’t matter what kind of music they play.

We have released records by screamo bands like City of Caterpillar and La Quiete; emo bands like Catena Collapse, Fire Team Charlie, and Indian Summer; indie rock bands like Tar Feathers, Glös, Haram, and Flamingo Massacres; hardcore bands like Burial Year, Zann, and Ghostlimb; and punk rock bands like bullets*in and Comadre. Most of the distribution we do ourselves, with the help of some bigger distros like Ebullition, Revelation, etc. So people have the chance to get the records everywhere, and if people want the records, we press as many as people need. We usually start with 500 copies and then reprint if there is demand. I think the DIY scene is still the best and strongest scene out there. Especially today, when all the bigger labels are struggling and selling less music, I think the DIY scene still moves a lot of records because it’s based on support and all that. I love it.

As we know, the squats in Europe are under a lot of pressure from the authorities. What do you think about that? Are you aware that the Köpi squat in Berlin is in constant danger of being evicted, as well as Rote Flora in Hamburg and many other autonomous spaces around the country?

Uwe: I know, it’s the same everywhere. In my home state, the only squat left, the Topf squat in Erfurt, will be evicted in the next few days. So far, there have been a lot of rallies and activities to prevent this, and we have to see what happens next. It’s getting harder and harder to find new free spaces for people, and squatting itself has decreased in the last few years.

Robert: I think when it comes to squatting, we are still quite spoiled in Germany. Many squats are now “legal,” and the punks bought them from the city or the landlord, like the Köpi, the Zoro, etc., and I know we are lucky to have them. I mean, compared to the UK, Sweden, or those countries, there is almost nothing like that. The squats are a big and important part of the DIY scene because they make touring possible and also give people ideas about alternative living and so on. So if those things went away, there would be a big hole in the scene.

What do you know about the recent riots in Greece after a 15-year-old boy was killed by a policeman? How does the average German citizen, who doesn’t read Indymedia and gets all his information from the mainstream press, react to things like that?

Uwe: I know what was on the mainstream media and on Indymedia. I don’t know how the average German citizen responds to mainstream media information, since I rarely talk about such stuff to them.

Robert: The thing has been in the media and also got criticized by them. But even if you have it all over the news, I think many people don’t care because it’s so far away.

What do you think about the immigrants coming to Germany after the integration of Bulgaria and Romania into the EU?

Uwe: I think it’s natural that people strive for better living conditions. And if that means leaving your hometown, sure, why not. I would move to the US if I could. I don’t see any differences, except that Eastern Europeans are discriminated against more.

What do you think about the Israeli attacks on Gaza? It seems that there are some people within the leftist movement in Germany who support Israel, and being pro-Palestine in Germany is not the same as in other parts of Europe.

Uwe: Yes, fortunately, being pro-Palestine in Germany is not the same as in other parts of Europe. Even though I believe there should be different ways to resolve this conflict, I support the Israeli actions against extremist assaults, which have been ongoing for years now. This is a very complex topic and can’t be broken down into a few sentences.

In my opinion, Israel is the only progressive element in this region, as it is a living democracy. When I see countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia still living in the Middle Ages and practicing Sharia with its inhuman laws, I can’t help but support civilized values and societies. Moreover, how can I, as a human being with a shameful German history, support the Palestinian people led by an organization like Hamas, which is anti-Semitic, denies the Holocaust, and denies Israel’s right to exist? These are fascist positions and therefore supported mainly by fascists and right-wing scum in Germany. Just during this recent conflict, there were the biggest anti-Semitic rallies in Germany since the Third Reich, with Israeli flags being torn apart and chants of “Death to Israel.” This really reminds me of very dark times, and it left me speechless to see that this could still happen in Germany.

What about your daily life? Are you happy with what you’re doing? If so, are there any ways you can inspire others to do the same? Any ideas on how we can move forward and have a fulfilling, enjoyable, and sustainable lifestyle/hardcore scene?

Uwe: No, I’m not completely satisfied with my daily life. I mean, it could be way worse. I have food, a place to live, an OK job, some friends, and a great band to tour with. But it could be way better too, so this is what I’m striving for. I can’t give much advice besides this: ask yourself what you really long for and try to make as few compromises as possible while trying to reach that goal.

Robert: I’m satisfied with my life. I mean, I have my own record store and I tour the world with the band. It’s all good. I think if you try hard and never give up, work hard on your dreams, and do your own thing, it’s all good. Maybe that sounds cliché, but I kind of believe in that, and I believe in myself. As long as you believe in yourself, get your shit together, and be honest with yourself and other people, you are on the right way.